FairTax

[kbubp]

So, this is the best idea in a while. Write your congressman (Duncan for most of you), sign the petition, etc.

Here's a brief rundown with the petition link: click (http://blog.kylebubp.net/?p=15)

Here's the official website: click (http://www.fairtax.org)

Do it.

[BolognaPony]

What i do know is that the congressmen's son is a dipshit.

Does that help?

[kbubp]

no, dont post in this thread again unless you have something constructive to contribute.

[not cbring]

What are those opposed to this saying and why are they wrong?

[kbubp]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say? You mean, who is opposing the FairTax?

[kenscivic]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say? You mean, who is opposing the FairTax?


I believe he wants to know what the other side has to say about it, their opinions/thoughts..

Or as some would call it "slander" :nod:

definatly looks like an interesting proposal, i am about asleep but tomorrow i will go over it again and have a more thought out reply

[McCorkle]

What i do know is that the congressmen's son is a dipshit.

Does that help?
:werd:

[kbubp]

I believe he wants to know what the other side has to say about it, their opinions/thoughts..

Or as some would call it "slander" :nod:

definatly looks like an interesting proposal, i am about asleep but tomorrow i will go over it again and have a more thought out reply


one thought that was brought up is excise tax (cigs, gas, booze, etc) and if the fairtax will be raised to counteract the deficit created by taking away these excise taxes. I dont know for sure, but I think we need to start at the root: excessive government spending.

[jerome]

What are those opposed to this saying and why are they wrong?


Those opposed obviously are saying they dont like it:nod: On a serious note those opposed are IRS employees, the elected government members who are only in it for the money and benefits, and lobbyist on Capitol Hill.

IRS employees and Lobbyist obviously because they will lose their job.

And elected government members that constantly take money from tax paying citizens via Lobbyist.:werd:

I suggest read the book, it was the first book I have read since graduating highschool(yes, i realize that is pathetic) but it is truly interesting and will eventually one day come into affect. It is a great all around plan and would sure make our economy boom, along with help small businesses which is this country's backbone.

However, Im sure our elected officials will fight this as long as possible to take as much money from us as possible. Whatever President can this past while in office will look like the biggest genious in our country's history. However, logic and reasoning to government officials is about on the same level as logic and reasoning on this forum.:)

[2nuggetCs]

I would say a 30% increase in new item woud definatly slow sales of big ticket items by the middle class...such as new cars. If I want to buy a 30,000 dollar car and it costs me 39000 out the door i think id be a little unhappy. I mean this doesnt really bother me cause i usually buy used but hell, someone has to buy new or there wont be any used.

I think it sounds like an interesting proposal though.

[not cbring]

Those opposed obviously are saying they dont like it:nod: On a serious note those opposed are IRS employees, the elected government members who are only in it for the money and benefits, and lobbyist on Capitol Hill.

IRS employees and Lobbyist obviously because they will lose their job.

And elected government members that constantly take money from tax paying citizens via Lobbyist.:werd:

I suggest read the book, it was the first book I have read since graduating highschool(yes, i realize that is pathetic) but it is truly interesting and will eventually one day come into affect. It is a great all around plan and would sure make our economy boom, along with help small businesses which is this country's backbone.

However, Im sure our elected officials will fight this as long as possible to take as much money from us as possible. Whatever President can this past while in office will look like the biggest genious in our country's history. However, logic and reasoning to government officials is about on the same level as logic and reasoning on this forum.:)

I think the poverty level is set too low. I have elderly family members on fixed income that spend more than the set poverty level on medicine. Of course they are always free to avoid the tax entirely by purchasing used milk and bread.

Part of the idea behind it working for EVERYONE!!!!1 is that retailers will volunteer to severely cut prices. Do you honestly think that will happen?

It really isn't a good deal for the folks in the accounting business either. ;)

[kbubp]

I think the poverty level is set too low. I have elderly family members on fixed income that spend more than the set poverty level on medicine. Of course they are always free to avoid the tax entirely by purchasing used milk and bread.

Part of the idea behind it working for EVERYONE!!!!1 is that retailers will volunteer to severely cut prices. Do you honestly think that will happen?

It really isn't a good deal for the folks in the accounting business either. ;)

Well, at least one has to (drop prices), then others will follow suit or go out of business.

[not cbring]

Why does "one" have to drop prices?

[BolognaPony]

Of course they are always free to avoid the tax entirely by purchasing used milk and bread.




basic needs are tax free anyway under the new plan.

read before you spout off your cocksucker.

[not cbring]

basic needs are tax free anyway under the new plan.

read before you spout off your cocksucker.

I couldn't find that part. All I found was this...

What is taxed? The FairTax is a single-rate, federal retail sales tax collected only once, at the final point of purchase of new goods and services for personal consumption. Used items are not taxed. Business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services are not taxed. A rebate makes the effective rate progressive.


Why not just exempt food and medicine from the tax? Wouldn’t that be fair and simple? Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.

Finally, exempting one product or service, but not another, opens the door to the army of lobbyists and special interest groups that plague and distort our taxation system today. Those who have the money will send lobbyists to Washington to obtain special tax breaks in their own self-interest. This process causes unfair and inefficient distortions in our economy and must be stopped.

So....

read before you spout off your cocksucker

[kbubp]

Cbring: Your family will get a check at the beginning of each month to offset the taxes on necessities, like food.

edit: heres a link to a rebate table explaining it.
http://fairtaxvolunteer.org/pdf/rebate_table2006.pdf

[not cbring]

Cbring: Your family will get a check at the beginning of each month to offset the taxes on necessities, like food.

edit: heres a link to a rebate table explaining it.
http://fairtaxvolunteer.org/pdf/rebate_table2006.pdf

See poverty level comment. If you are on a fixed income and you have sizeable medical expenses, I can't see how this is a better deal.

[kbubp]

See poverty level comment. If you are on a fixed income and you have sizeable medical expenses, I can't see how this is a better deal.


No insurance?

[kbubp]

Like I said before, what really needs to happen is to cut frivilous govt. spending. You know why we don't see where our SS money is? Because its not there... its been spent. If we were to cut govt. spending, we could take that money and invest it in something like Canada does, which is healthcare for every citizen.

[D16Z6VTEC]

I hate Bredesen.

He's a complete jackass and a half.

[kbubp]

I hate Bredesen.

He's a complete jackass and a half.

Perhaps you should do something about it...

Like present your issues to him in a formal letter.

[not cbring]

I hate Bredesen.

He's a complete jackass and a half.

You should start a blog and put a petition on it...

[kbubp]

You should start a blog and put a petition on it...

Better than being complacent.

[Engloid]

Ok, so if we look at the example posted, paying $23 out of $100 from your check currently...

If we then go to paying $23 for every $100 spent, then the Fed looses on every dollar that is not spent. ....however this summary makes out like there would be no change in the amount paid?

[kbubp]

Ok, so if we look at the example posted, paying $23 out of $100 from your check currently...

If we then go to paying $23 for every $100 spent, then the Fed looses on every dollar that is not spent. ....however this summary makes out like there would be no change in the amount paid?


but you must remember this tax hits everyone, because everyone purchases things. so all the drug money that isnt taxed, would be under the new system. all the illegals that dont pay tax, would pay under the new system, many other examples...

[Engloid]

but you must remember this tax hits everyone, because everyone purchases things. so all the drug money that isnt taxed, would be under the new system. all the illegals that dont pay tax, would pay under the new system, many other examples...

Yeah..and the reason this WON'T happen is because rich people spend more than poor people... and they don't want to pay more taxes. Remember, they're the ones that go to the $1000/plate dinners to meet the politicians... and donate even more to the campaign funds.

Ever wonder why even local politicians will spend 300k to get a 40k job?

[D16Z6VTEC]

Yeah my friends mom is pretty high up on the chain in Knoxville. Hell, her husband used to be the late senator Koella.

Very very awesome family I must say, even if they are republican :)

And on writing Bredesen---my mom, brother and I had been to court over his decisions he made against the welfare of Tennessee---obviously those people were working for him too, we never heard a single word back on the case.

[kbubp]

welfare needs to be redone. if you are able to work, then you shouldnt be able to attain welfare. anyway, thats a whole different topic altogether.

partisianship is pointless. it allows you to make ignorant decisions.

i know who you are talking about, and im sure she gets more than her fair share of our taxes because of her daughter's condition, which is bullshits.

Engloid: I don't see your logic. You are saying that because people who spend a lot would be taxed more, and those who spend a lot help elect govt. officials, then it wont pass. The resolution is simple... dont spend as much. It's not like it doesnt even out anyway. The unfortunate thing is that our government is not in the hands of the citizens it is supposed to serve, it is in the hands of whoever has the most money.

[kbubp]

bredesen :(

k well, vote him out.

[not cbring]

Yeah..and the reason this WON'T happen is because rich people spend more than poor people... and they don't want to pay more taxes. Remember, they're the ones that go to the $1000/plate dinners to meet the politicians... and donate even more to the campaign funds.

Ever wonder why even local politicians will spend 300k to get a 40k job?

The rich most likely spend a MUCH smaller percentage of their salary than the poor.

[kbubp]

The rich most likely spend a MUCH smaller percentage of their salary than the poor.


in the current system, they get tax breaks for being rich.

Plus lets say someone who ears 200K a year spends 20% of it, which, is highly unlikely as the american average saves -2% of their income, but for arguments sake, lets just say that.

Now there is a poor person who makes 20k a year or less. Even if they spend 100% of their money, it would still be less than the rich.

[Timebomb]

haha. It sounds nice, but it will never happen. Nader for prez.

[Engloid]

The rich most likely spend a MUCH smaller percentage of their salary than the poor.

...which means they would pay a smaller percentage of their income than the poor that have to spend everything they make.

[not cbring]

...which means they would pay a smaller percentage of their income than the poor that have to spend everything they make.

;)

[kbubp]

...which means they would pay a smaller percentage of their income than the poor that have to spend everything they make.

I dont see your argument. You are trying to say that they should pay more and the poor should pay less because of their fortune/misfortune?

How the hell is that fair?

[not cbring]

I dont see your argument. You are trying to say that they should pay more and the poor should pay less because of their fortune/misfortune?

How the hell is that fair?

I don't necessarily see that as an argument. The same goes for my post that you quoted and then fired off some blah.

Frankly, for someone who cares about something enough to go to the trouble with the blog and telling us is it the best and we should jump on the bandwagon, you are explaining your positition in very much depth.

[D16Z6VTEC]

kyle, laura is a-okay and able to work, she holds a fulltime job at jtv and even works over time. her mom hasn't helped her a single bit (monetary wise) since she got married. Laura has paid her own bills (along with her husband) and no, laura's condition isn't a lie. it's not like they're collecting any money for it.

[kbubp]

no, laura's condition isn't a lie. its not like they are collecting any money for it.

i didnt say it was a lie.

how do you know? are you their personal accountant?

[kbubp]

I don't necessarily see that as an argument. The same goes for my post that you quoted and then fired off some blah.

Frankly, for someone who cares about something enough to go to the trouble with the blog and telling us is it the best and we should jump on the bandwagon, you are explaining your positition in very much depth.

I'm just not understanding what you are trying to argue? That poor people aren't going to get a break? That rich people are going to have more money than poor people. It's like you are pulling out obvious facts and somehow trying to use them to demote this idea.

[Engloid]

I dont see your argument. You are trying to say that they should pay more and the poor should pay less because of their fortune/misfortune?

How the hell is that fair?

The point is that a poor man spends 100% of his income. A rich man may only spend 10%. Therefore, the poor man is taxed on 100% of what he makes and the rich man is only taxed on 10%.

Also keep in mind that the rich aren't nearly as burdened by taxation. It hurts them much less. ...and they got their money by riding on the backs of the poor. If you wanna argue it, tell me about how the rich guys build their own houses, make their own clothes, etc.

[kbubp]

Is it the rich man's fault that the poor man is poor? Why should we punish the rich?

[moocow]

I don't know anyone who makes their own clothes.

[kbubp]

I don't know anyone who makes their own clothes.

hippies.

And who cares about them?

[Engloid]

I don't know anyone who makes their own clothes.
Exactly. We all have to depend on the guys at the "bottom" of the supply chain. Sometimes, those that make loads of money think that they worked for all they have, and have no sympathy for the little guys...when those are the guys that they depend on for most of the things they use daily.

[kbubp]

Exactly. We all have to depend on the guys at the "bottom" of the supply chain. Sometimes, those that make loads of money think that they worked for all they have, and have no sympathy for the little guys...when those are the guys that they depend on for most of the things they use daily.

need moar robots

[Engloid]

need moar robots
They're often aren't any cheaper than people are. Not only that, but they often require perfectly precise input parts. In other words, a human can adapt to a part that's not quite the right size, and still hold it. In many cases ,a robot will have a hard time with items that are not all identical.

Heil (tanker truck company) had a $500k robotic welder. Even the maker of the robot couldn't get it to do many things. Most parts it welded had to be repaired by humans.

Just think what you'd pay for a hamburger if McD's had to buy a $300k robot to put them together.

[Engloid]

Is it the rich man's fault that the poor man is poor? Why should we punish the rich?
Is it punishing the rich to ask them to pay the same percentage of their income as a poor man?

Shit on the poor people and see if you don't have a bunch of mexicans doing ALL service work in the country...and all the poor americans will be on welfare.

In other words, if you can't make it profitable for an american to work, they won't.

oh, but I forget...poor people are poor because they're trash and want to be poor, right?

[kbubp]

Is it punishing the rich to ask them to pay the same percentage of their income as a poor man?

Shit on the poor people and see if you don't have a bunch of mexicans doing ALL service work in the country...and all the poor americans will be on welfare.

In other words, if you can't make it profitable for an american to work, they won't.

oh, but I forget...poor people are poor because they're trash and want to be poor, right?

They are paying the same percentage. 25% on all goods.

What you are saying is tax the rich more because they have more income and tax the poor less because they have less income.

[Engloid]

What I'm saying is that your idea is not going to work. It protects the rich, yes... cause they will pay a smaller portion of their money in taxes than they are now. Sure they are the ones that bribe the politicians, but the politicians have to look out for the machine that makes it all possible...the govt itself.

Who the hell is gonna pay the money to keep the govt running? The poor people can't afford it!! If you tax them more, you only have to support them on welfare, or you drive them so badly into poverty that the crime rates skyrocket. Where poverty is high, crime is high.

[kbubp]

Where poverty is high, crime is high.

this is why i also support the second amendment.

[Engloid]

this is why i also support the second amendment.
You NEVER have a legal right to use deadly force to protect any belongings.

If somebody's going to break into your car, or steal things from your shed, etc, they will likely wait until you're not around.

[kbubp]

You NEVER have a legal right to use deadly force to protect any belongings.



LOL!

If I ever awoke to someone in my home stealing something, I would not hesitate one bit to put a bullet in their face.

edit: Tennessee seems to think thats okay.

[D16Z6VTEC]

i didnt say it was a lie.

how do you know? are you their personal accountant?


you said her condition is bullshit??
also, considering i used to live with them, that says alot. i was there when her husband confronted her about spending (alot) too much on their credit card....twice. lol

[kbubp]

you said her condition is bullshit??
also, considering i used to live with them, that says alot. i was there when her husband confronted her about spending (alot) too much on their credit card....twice. lol

I mean the fact that they are probably in certain govt. programs that they shouldn't be because of her mother's political position.

I don't know how a lack of self control has anything to do with one's income.

[modifyd]

The fair tax would be great and would work. The book is short and easy to read and after you read it you will think differently about it. If you don't want to buy the book then you can borrow mine. One more thing no one pays tax on basic necessaties.:)

[Timebomb]

living in a free country doesn't come cheap

[Engloid]

LOL!

If I ever awoke to someone in my home stealing something, I would not hesitate one bit to put a bullet in their face.

edit: Tennessee seems to think thats okay.
That's because the law sees that as protecting yourself and/or family...not protecting assets.

The fair tax would be great and would work. The book is short and easy to read and after you read it you will think differently about it. If you don't want to buy the book then you can borrow mine. One more thing no one pays tax on basic necessaties.:)
I can't figure out how this plan can be done without greatly reducing the amount of tax collected SIGNIFICANTLY. That's the biggest problem with it. If the govt has to take even a 20% budget cut, the politicians will never let it happen.

[kbubp]

living in a free country doesn't come cheap


canada?
UK?
Sweden?
Any modern country?

[Engloid]

How many of you have been greeted while pumping gas, or entering a restaurant, with some sob story of...

"I'm sorry, sir, but I live in ____ and I don't have enough money to get gas to get home..."

It's always a similar story. The other day, a girl asked me this in front of the IHOP on lovell rd. Interesting though...when she left, she drove away from the interstate and towards Turkey Creek.

About two days ago, a lady approached me at a gas pump, wanting money for gas. I told her that I didn't carry cash...as I swiped my card at the pump. I was waiting on her to ask me to swipe the card for her. I figured it would get ugly really quick if she didn't leave me alone.

It's really starting to piss me off when these people beg for money. The fuckers can go get a job and work for some money if they want some.

[kbubp]

How many of you have been greeted while pumping gas, or entering a restaurant, with some sob story of...

"I'm sorry, sir, but I live in ____ and I don't have enough money to get gas to get home..."

It's always a similar story. The other day, a girl asked me this in front of the IHOP on lovell rd. Interesting though...when she left, she drove away from the interstate and towards Turkey Creek.

About two days ago, a lady approached me at a gas pump, wanting money for gas. I told her that I didn't carry cash...as I swiped my card at the pump. I was waiting on her to ask me to swipe the card for her. I figured it would get ugly really quick if she didn't leave me alone.

It's really starting to piss me off when these people beg for money. The fuckers can go get a job and work for some money if they want some.
Amen.

[Engloid]

oops... I meant to start a new thread, not jack this one.

[Timebomb]

canada?
UK?
Sweden?
Any modern country?

don't let me stop you...

[Timebomb]

canada?
UK?
Sweden?
Any modern country?

whoa

[jerome]

I can't figure out how this plan can be done without greatly reducing the amount of tax collected SIGNIFICANTLY. That's the biggest problem with it. If the govt has to take even a 20% budget cut, the politicians will never let it happen.


That is exactly what I was saying on the first page of this thread. The plan would definately work better than what we have in place now, however, it leaves much less room for scandal and lobbying:chair: What would the dems bitch about if this past, we would all be on an equal playing field as God created us. I think we all know dems/libs would never let this happen. I mean, who would they cater/lie to????

[not cbring]

How many of you have been greeted while pumping gas, or entering a restaurant, with some sob story of...

"I'm sorry, sir, but I live in ____ and I don't have enough money to get gas to get home..."

It's always a similar story. The other day, a girl asked me this in front of the IHOP on lovell rd. Interesting though...when she left, she drove away from the interstate and towards Turkey Creek.

About two days ago, a lady approached me at a gas pump, wanting money for gas. I told her that I didn't carry cash...as I swiped my card at the pump. I was waiting on her to ask me to swipe the card for her. I figured it would get ugly really quick if she didn't leave me alone.

It's really starting to piss me off when these people beg for money. The fuckers can go get a job and work for some money if they want some.

Man, you don't even know until you've worked downtown....

I bet I get hit up 10-15 times a week. My new strategy is to ask them for money before they can ask me. "Hey man, can you spare me some change? I'm hungry and don't get paid until next week."

One of these days I'll probably get knocked upside the head or something.....

[kbubp]

Man, you don't even know until you've worked downtown....

I bet I get hit up 10-15 times a week. My new strategy is to ask them for money before they can ask me. "Hey man, can you spare me some change? I'm hungry and don't get paid until next week."

One of these days I'll probably get knocked upside the head or something.....


why are homeless people such morons? There are plenty of programs out there to help them, and with the cost of living in tn, it wouldnt be hard to find a place to live, because any place is better than the streets, even with a job making 10 dollars an hour, which some fast food joints pay now. STOP RIDING ON MY COATTAILS HOMELESS PEOPLE.

[Your Mother]

why are homeless people such morons?
Probably because most of them actually are...
You know, like actually retarded or insane.

[Engloid]

That is exactly what I was saying on the first page of this thread. The plan would definately work better than what we have in place now, however, it leaves much less room for scandal and lobbying:chair: What would the dems bitch about if this past, we would all be on an equal playing field as God created us. I think we all know dems/libs would never let this happen. I mean, who would they cater/lie to????
If the govt was filled with nothng but republicans, you'd be working 80hrs a week....straight time, and with probably no benefits. You have to have somebody looking out for the little guys, or big business takes over.

It's the "checks and balances" concept. Without it, we'd be fucked.

Although I typically like more democratic concepts than republican ones, I hope that dem's don't ever take over either. We need both to keep things running well.

[kbubp]

Probably because most of them actually are...
You know, like actually retarded or insane.
Then they should be euthanised.

[not cbring]

Did reds13 move in with you?

[BolognaPony]

I think we all know dems/libs would never let this happen. I mean, who would they cater/lie to????


Like republicans tell the truth :rolleyes:

Shut your ass up, cock blast.

[BolognaPony]

Did reds13 move in with you?


Kbubp simply shows intelligence in certain matters. :nod:


Darwin was no idiot.

[kbubp]

Did reds13 move in with you?
I'm just working on a perfect race....

Red man's the furnaces.

[jerome]

Like republicans tell the truth :rolleyes:

Shut your ass up, cock blast.

That comment was soley to get your panties in a bunch. Go make another thread with my name in it so you can look even more intellegient:nod:

Take the iraq war out of your mind for a second and please explain why Dems are superior to Repubs. I think they are all equally corrupt but I just cant stand how the Dems claim to protect/advance the uneducated and "minorities" in this country when in all reality they are only interested in their votes and the quest to keep them poor/uneducated so they will remain part of the democratic base. Republicans atleast offer incentives to the intellegient/self motivated truly hardworking american class(middle/ upper middle class) which keeps our economy affloat.

I vote for those who I feel look out for me and the ones I care about. I realize scandal is unavoidable in politics and no one politician is truly there "for the people". You continue to vote your way and I will continue to vote mine. There will be plenty of mistakes by both parties to point out along the way, but the one who makes the fewest mistakes that directly affects the well being of my family/friends and overall safety of this country is the one who I will continue to vote for and pray will end up in office. Im not affraid to work, and work hard so I try to surround myself with those who are the same way.

In the end this Fairtax bill will truly benefit those who work hard and make intellegient decisions all while at the same time helping contribute to those less valuable to our society. If you work hard and dont reach for hand outs this fair tax bill will do nothing but benefit you if you are rich or poor. However, this isnt a perfect world and we will continue to have those who proceed to spend countless hours a day bitching and moaning about what they dont have while others around them put in the extra work to get ahead in life.:)

[kbubp]

That comment was soley to get your panties in a bunch. Go make another thread with my name in it so you can look even more intellegient:nod:

Take the iraq war out of your mind for a second and please explain why Dems are superior to Repubs. I think they are all equally corrupt but I just cant stand how the Dems claim to protect/advance the uneducated and "minorities" in this country when in all reality they are only interested in their votes and the quest to keep them poor/uneducated so they will remain part of the democratic base. Republicans atleast offer incentives to the intellegient/self motivated truly hardworking american class(middle/ upper middle class) which keeps our economy affloat.

I vote for those who I feel look out for me and the ones I care about. I realize scandal is unavoidable in politics and no one politician is truly there "for the people". You continue to vote your way and I will continue to vote mine. There will be plenty of mistakes by both parties to point out along the way, but the one who makes the fewest mistakes that directly affects the well being of my family/friends and overall safety of this country is the one who I will continue to vote for and pray will end up in office. Im not affraid to work, and work hard so I try to surround myself with those who are the same way.

In the end this Fairtax bill will truly benefit those who work hard and make intellegient decisions all while at the same time helping contribute to those less valuable to our society. If you work hard and dont reach for hand outs this fair tax bill will do nothing but benefit you if you are rich or poor. However, this isnt a perfect world and we will continue to have those who proceed to spend countless hours a day bitching and moaning about what they dont have while others around them put in the extra work to get ahead in life.:)


I stopped reading after "intellegient".

edit: Just read it and I agree 100% with everything you said, you are pretty intelligent after all... even if you can't spell it :)

[jerome]

I stopped reading after "intellegient".

edit: Just read it and I agree 100% with everything you said, you are pretty intelligent after all... even if you can't spell it :)


I would claim a typo but I spelled it wrong more than once:doh: