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Boomer
01-31-2007, 08:47 AM
Ga State Rep. Barry Loudermilk, R-Cassville (just north of Cartersville on US 41 & I-75) who represents basically Bartow and Floyd Counties is mounting an appeal to outlaw red light camera's. Let's hope he is successful! Please call or write to your state representative and let them know YOU support H.B. 77!!!

From www.RomeNews-Tribune.com

Loudermilk Column: Red light cameras

01/26/07
By State Rep. Barry Loudermilk, R-Cassville
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A few years ago the General Assembly passed a law that allowed local governments to install automatic surveillance cameras, which detect a motorist running a traffic light and take a photograph of their vehicle’s tag.

Several businesses who had acquired this new technology were eager to contract with local governments in Georgia to install and operate these cameras. A strong lobbying effort helped this legislation breeze through the system, with improving safety by reducing the number of accidents as the mantra repeated by the bill’s supporters.

This week, I co-sponsored legislation (House Bill 77) that will repeal the law that authorizes local governments to contract with companies to install and operate these cameras.

Today it is estimated that there are as many as a hundred of these systems throughout the state, 45 just in the Atlanta area, generating millions of dollars in revenue for local governments and creating a growing market for the companies who operate these “ticket-by-mail” systems.

There have been several articles recently written about my sponsorship of this bill, including a recent editorial in the Rome News-Tribune. Surprisingly, the editorial board actually, although reluctantly, agreed with me on this issue.

They suggested that my motivation was as a result of me or a family member being cited by one of these “virtual cops.” However, no one in my family, to my knowledge, has received a citation from a red light camera. In fact, I try hard to obey traffic laws, including speed limits. My motivation, as I stated in an earlier article about this bill, is to uphold and support the Constitution.

The editorial board, in their column, has suggested that if I want to succeed in my fight to repeal this law, I should drop the Constitutional argument and focus on how these cameras have become cash cows for local governments, adding millions of dollars to their coffers.

Or, it is suggested, that I should fight on the grounds that there is no conclusive evidence that these cameras have reduced the number of accidents.

In fact, in many cases the total number of collisions has increased, due to motorists slamming on their brakes to avoid a “cyber ticket.” Or, I should mention, how a Texas study has shown that by adding one second to a yellow light has shown a much higher reduction in the number of traffic accidents than any of their red light cameras.

Colleagues in the House have advised me to focus on how most of the local governments who have these cameras have yet to file annual reports to the state as required by law. They suggest that these local governments are as guilty of violating state law as the citizens they are citing.

Others suggest I should speak about the reports of how some local governments have adjusted the timing of the yellow light after putting in the camera, to catch more violators. Or, let the public know that these cameras are not operated by their local government, but by independent contractors who are paid a one time purchase price of $100,000 to $200,000 per camera and paid about $3,500 per month for each camera they operate.

While all of these arguments are valid and they will be part of the debate over this issue, I have to maintain my original argument, that the operation of these cameras violates the right to due process. A right that our forefathers believed was so important that it was protected in our Constitution.

Running a red light in the State of Georgia is a criminal misdemeanor, which means the government must provide proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person accused committed the crime. Also, the Fifth Amendment states that you cannot be compelled to be a witness against yourself. This means that government cannot try you for a crime for which you are the only witness.

In the case of red light cameras, the only proof the government can present is that a vehicle registered in your name was being driven through a red light.

There is no evidence that you were the driver and the government cannot present any evidence that you, the individual, violated any law. According to an attorney I consulted who is well versed in Constitutional and Georgia Law, there is no way that the government would ever win if a citizen were to take their cyber ticket to court.

So why are citizens being cited for violations that the government cannot uphold in court? That is the question.

While I appreciate all the friendly advice I have received on where I should make my stand on this issue, I am reminded of the oath of office I took on January 10, 2005 and again on January 8, 2006. “I swear to support the Constitution of this State and the Constitution of the United States…So Help Me God.”

As a representative of the people of Bartow and Floyd Counties, I have sworn to uphold the Constitution and that is where I will make my stand… So Help me God!

mike460
01-31-2007, 09:12 AM
Hell yea, if this goes through I can start running the light at 41 and Windy Hill again!
I mean, uh, that would be cool...and I don't run red lights...

blacknotch
01-31-2007, 09:48 AM
i hope it passes!!! these fuggin idiots in conyers cant drive worth a shit!!!

brian97cobra
01-31-2007, 11:43 AM
i live in gwinnett and there are about 5 or 6 of them that i know of. i pass about 2-3 every day almost...

they are total bs. i havent been hit by one of these tickets yet but once or twice i thought i might because i was stuck in the road when the light turned red.

if they dont see it personally then there should not be a ticket issued.

blacknotch
01-31-2007, 03:20 PM
i think they are starting to put them up because more and more people try to run them. if people wouldnt abuse the system then they would have to do things like this.

1GT1
01-31-2007, 03:41 PM
I say do away with the cameras. Send me my 140 dollars back for the two tickets I got. Bunch of crooks.

David88vert
01-31-2007, 04:52 PM
I hate the cameras. I got a ticket sent to me because someone else ran a red light - in a vehicle that is registered to me. I have NEVER driven that particular vehicle through that light (Lilburn), and I was at work at the time (and had proof). However, in order to fight it, I would have to give up 2 days of work. That would cost me 6 times the amount of the ticket - even though I was not guilty in any way.
I don't run red lights. But I still got ticketed for it. My only crime is that I abide by the legal system. I do NOT believe in the legal system or the government. I have never received a fair shake from them, only gotten screwed over.

Boomer
01-31-2007, 05:10 PM
Everybody, call or write your House Representative and tell them to vote for H.B.77.

I did:

________________________________________
From: Scott Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:11 AM
To: 'Katie.Dempsey@house.ga.gov'
Cc: 'Barry.Loudermilk@house.ga.gov'; 'cmanager@romega.us'
Subject: H.B. 77

Dear Ms. Dempsey,

My name is Scott Roberts. I am a resident of Floyd County; and reside in the Garden Lakes area within the City of Rome.

As my representative, I wanted to voice my support to you in favor of House Bill 77 which Mr. Barry Loudermilk, Representative, House District 14, is co-sponsoring that would repeal the red light ticket cameras in the State of Georgia; and additionally, I would like to ask what your stance is on this matter.

As you obviously know, Rome operates one such camera now at the intersection of Tuner-McCall Blvd (a.k.a. US Highway 27) and Hick’s Drive in “east” Rome, and is moving rapidly to install a second camera at the intersection of Martha Berry Highway (a.k.a. US 27) and Veteran’s Memorial Highway (a.k.a. GA 1 Loop).

As a citizen of Floyd County, I concur with every single one of Mr. Loudermilk statements regarding abolishing such cameras.

Furthermore, I would like to share with you how I change how I drive as I approach the one intersection in Rome where the camera is installed: As I travel towards the intersection, if the traffic light has been green for a while then I begin to slow down so I can stop in time should the traffic light change to yellow before I pass through the intersection. If the light changes from green to yellow while I am directly at it then I speed up significantly to avoid being “stuck out” in the intersection when it changes from yellow to red. If there is a vehicle immediately in front of me, then not only do I keep and eye on the light but I then have to keep my eye on it to make sure it doesn’t stop abruptly; in essence, constantly changing where I am looking as I continue to travel through the intersection - all of that “uneasiness” and “un-safeness” to avoid a paying “civil penalty” fine of $70.00 for the infraction. I’m sure there are others who also change their driving method to something similar as I do as they approach the intersection.

While I am all for traffic safety, as I’m sure other citizens are too, a “red light” camera and the way the State holds the registered owner of the vehicle responsible for the fine, is not the proper method to “police” busy intersections and ticket violators who drive through red lights. If Counties and Municipalities are indeed really serious about wanting to insure their intersections are safe and as accident free as possible then they should use the money budgeted for such equipment, and any preceding traffic analysis beforehand, to hire additional qualified police officer’s (along with vehicles for them to use) and assign them to “roving red light” duty throughout their respective jurisdictions.

Mr. Loudermilk said it best in his editorial response posted at www.romenews-tribune.com:

“The operation of these cameras violates the right to due process. A right that our forefathers believed was so important that it was protected in our Constitution.

Running a red light in the State of Georgia is a criminal misdemeanor, which means the government must provide proof, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the person accused committed the crime. Also, the Fifth Amendment states that you cannot be compelled to be a witness against yourself. This means that government cannot try you for a crime for which you are the only witness.”

I hope that you’ll share the opinion Mr. Loudermilk and I hold regarding of illegal operation of the “red light” cameras and will support your fellow Representative (and me as my Representative) in the House regarding this issue.

Sincerely,
Scott Roberts
Citizen, Floyd County, Georgia

darkshadowmach
01-31-2007, 07:04 PM
My wife informed me yesterday that we may be getting one of these photo fines in the next couple of days. The good news is she was driving her mother's car, so it wont be mailed here or go on my wife's driving record. American law at its finest.

287TC'S
01-31-2007, 08:21 PM
Those damn cameras will definately make anyone uneasy. We only have one that I know of close to here and thats in Riverdale on HWY 85 and I am actually glad that everytime I have been through it except once that it was red when I got there. The one time it wasn't I though all hell was fixing to break loose from all the idiots slamming on their brakes and crap.

copperdodge
02-01-2007, 08:28 AM
As someone who got t-boned in my Volkswagen at 45mph by a girl who was running a redlight that had been red for a good solid 30 seconds, I must disagree and say that these cameras sending tickets out to fucking cell-phone talking bimbo's is the exact thing we need to get the point across.

I wish I still had photos of the results, but I trashed them once the car was fixed....

copperdodge
02-01-2007, 08:36 AM
And just as a little explanation of how these systems work, you are still dealing with human judgement before you get a ticket. As a general practice, based on what the City of Decatur police explained to me, the cameras are trained to take a photo of the intersection at the instant the light turns red, with one lens zoomed in very tight where cars SHOULD be travelling. Then the camera takes another picture at some fraction of a second later and then a 3rd photo that same fraction of a second later.

This information is sent back to the police station digitally and during the day, there are one or two officers who are assigned to review these digital photographs. They use their judgement to decide who was running the light and who was not.

If you car is shown IN FRONT OF THE WHITE STOP BAR STRIPE at the time of the first photograph (taken as the light has already turned red), then your car has penetrated the intersection and you are legally REQUIRED to pass through the intersection to avoid blocking traffic. You are not running a red light.

If your car is shown BEHIND THE WHITE STOP BAR STRIPE in the first photograph (taken as the light has already turned red) and then it is shown in the intersection across that stop bar in the 2nd photograph, they check the 3rd photograph.

If they inspect the 3rd photograph, and you have kept on travelling, they send out a ticket to the address where the car is registered.



If you get a ticket, it's not some dumb-ass machine's fault. It's your dumb-ass fault. But now you know how to stay legal. If that light is turning yellow, you need to hurry up & get your bumper into that intersection quicker......

brian97cobra
02-01-2007, 09:38 AM
interesting info...

though its a good thing for people like cell uses that cant drive. its also a big pain in the ass for people that slam on their brakes the fraction of a second it turns yellow.


ive been told if ur in the photo regardless your ass is getting a ticket from dekalb co.

mike460
02-01-2007, 10:02 AM
You know, it is a whole different scenario, but how bout we EDUCATE people how to drive. Or how about take an IQ test along with the driving test. Or make the driving test more difficult? Take a lot of the stupidity out of the traffic before things like this shit even pop up. If you aren't smart enough to breath while your eyes are open, you shouldn't be driving. Can't read? Tough shit. Can't read ENGILISH DON"T FUCKING DRIVE. Driving is a priviledge, NOT A RIGHT.

Geezer
02-01-2007, 11:11 AM
I normally just read these threads but dont make a comment. However, this one is different. I agree with Boomer (Does this make me a bad man?), but primarily because of individual rights, something that is rapidly disappearing in this country. It is the same arguement as mandatory seatbelts and mandatory helmets. I had a bad motorcycle accident a few years ago, hitting a deer, and I am alive today because I was wearing a helmet. However, I still disagree with a law that says I have to wear one. The sad part about this is that it has nothing to do with decreasing the number of accidents or automobile safety. It is about generating revenue, period-the almighty dollar! Government administrations, local, state, and federal, are incredibly inefficient, and on a sliding scale. The bigger the group-local to the feds-the bigger the inefficiency and the more money that is wasted. So, this scam, operated by an independent business, and not the local police, is only about generating revenues. That is why it should be repealed.
One more thing-Kenny Jackson got his tickets because he doesn't drive anything fast enough to get through the intersection before the light changes.
Just my two cents.

1GT1
02-01-2007, 02:37 PM
Geezer, how does your car sound? I'am a funny man.