Throttle mod

[Kent Rose]

Please I'm gonna puke.....

[Steve Buckley]

:D

[AE86_Trueno]

how many HP's does it add..guy's in honda's told me 200hp gain..:tongue:

-tak

[00Evan]

Do you guys know about 300zxs and how the throttle bodies work?

Didnt think so..

:D


-00Evan

[L98vette]

Originally posted by 00Evan
Do you guys know about 300zxs and how the throttle bodies work?

Didnt think so..

:D


-00Evan

i bet they have this flap that limits air flow, that is controlled by some type of cable that is connected to a gas pedel.

[00Evan]

mm hmm yep :D

but they also have a metal tab and chunk of aluminum on the plenum which only allow the throttle bodies to open 60%. I modified the throttle bodies so they open 100% at WOT. More airflow=more power.

-00Evan

[3Cars]

wow! 40% more power!

[L98vette]

Originally posted by 00Evan
mm hmm yep :D

but they also have a metal tab and chunk of aluminum on the plenum which only allow the throttle bodies to open 60%. I modified the throttle bodies so they open 100% at WOT. More airflow=more power.

-00Evan

Why would any company design something so shitty? was that for gas mileage/emissions purposes?

[00Evan]

I am not sure why it is there, I am guessing that like you said its for fuel economy or something

-00Evan

[L98vette]

Originally posted by 00Evan
I am not sure why it is there, I am guessing that like you said its for fuel economy or something

-00Evan

thats pretty damn stupid..

SLP made a T-Ram intake for the 92 firehawks, and there was a major restriction right behind the TB, the runners were blocking nearly 40% of the flow area, but that intake makes more power that the superram.

[Adam Culpepper]

i just got around to reading this. jesus christ.

a throttle does not supply air in a linear fashion. pressing the accelerator ten percent of its travel will open the throttle ten percent of its own travel, but it DOES NOT supply only ten percent of the potential airflow to the engine. it usually supplies anywhere from 30-40 percent at that point.

by putting an overly large throttle on an engine you can supply more air WHEN THE THROTTLE IS CRACKED OPEN. this is primarily what OEMs are concerned with, as most driving occurs at this point. the WOT condition is not what manufacturers build for, and its not how they throttle an engine. a large throttle generally gives snappier off-idle torque because it allows more air and fuel in the bottom and mid range. this is the point where the engine is most likely to use it and respond to fuel and mixture changes quickly. when the butterfly is cranked all of the way open, the motor will respond more sluggishly. in fact, in an application with an oversized throttle, flooring the accelerator from a dead stop will give you less acceleration and a higher chance of engine bog if the throttle goes wide open.

the manufacturer fixes this by limiting throttle travel. just because your butterfly doesnt go fully horizontal doesnt mean you arent getting sufficient airflow. the manufacturer gets the best of both worlds. ideal engine response and power at part throttle, without unnecessary pressure drop at WOT. this is crucial with smaller engines that dont have multiple throttles. larger engines are not effected by this phenomenon nearly as much.

with a naturally aspirated Datsun, it is entirely possible that you fucked up the 80 percent of the powerband you use the most, for a questionable gain over the length of the quarter.

the problem here is that youre a dumbass who thinks that he can out-engineer the OEM's. you think that more air is always better, but youre applying it like 1's and 0's. on and off. it doesnt work that way. an engine has to be fed properly, and at the right speed. a tiny little engine like yours is much more susceptable to poor throttling than a larger one.

you need to seek professional advice before you booger up your engine.

oh, lemme guess. you read about it on a message board or in a magazine. im sure all those guys know much more than Datsun does.

[00Evan]

A) I am a mechanical engineering student, I did my research before doing this mod

B) you even answered why i did it yourself


this is crucial with smaller engines that dont have multiple throttles. larger engines are not effected by this phenomenon nearly as much.

Guess what, my engine is not small, and HAS multiple throttle bodies. Two small throttle bodies would not be affected by the butterfly valve opening all the way.

Yes I agree with you, if I had one large throttle body this would cause lag as there would be a big hole with a small amount of air going through it. But what you dont know is that the 300zx engine has 2 throttle bodies which are pretty small.

My 1/4 mile times also improved after removing the stop so there.
:burnout:

-00Evan

[Adam Culpepper]

no, dumbass, you dont get it.

"you even answered why i did it yourself"

your throttles are OVERSIZED. they are OVERSIZED for a reason. OVERSIZED throttles deliver more airflow to the engine quicker, which adds to throttle response and low end torque. OVERSIZED throttles also make for a sluggish top end and poor engine acceleration. thats why your WOT is limited.

"Guess what, my engine is not small"

says who?

300 inch motors are midsized. your engine is freaking tiny.

"I am a mechanical engineering student, I did my research before doing this mod"

youve already proven that you dont know dick about engines. youve got alot of nerve even replying to someone such as myself with a half ass response like that.

you didnt research shit.

you saw it on the internet and you saw that it was free. like most dumbasses, you went ahead and did it, all the while convincing yourself that it works.

"Yes I agree with you, if I had one large throttle body this would cause lag as there would be a big hole with a small amount of air going through it. But what you dont know is that the 300zx engine has 2 throttle bodies which are pretty small."

flawed logic.

two throttles equaling the size of one larger throttle will always flow more cfm.

for instance, two 1.5 inch throttles will flow more than a single 3 inch throttle does.

in this case the sudden gross volume of air that your throttles can flow at WOT is more than what the engine can readily accept at low speeds. hence, your throttles are OVERSIZED.

"My 1/4 mile times also improved after removing the stop so there."

i see. so your Ultimate Brake Pads were bought for the purposes of going faster in the quarter? maybe youd like to go back and read about how i told you that the "throttle mod" youre so proud of will potentially hurt the majority of the driving you do in the car.

what you are trying to do is take the cheapest way out. youre doing silly shit like free "throttle mods" and buying "hi flow intakes" because you really arent sure what the hell it is you want to do. after all, would you consider the "ground control" coilovers a good dragstrip item? of course not. youre producing a four wheeled compromise thats driven by spur of the moment purchases and cash-on-hand. basically, midget, youre fucking up.

btw, i seriously doubt the ET change from such a thing is noticable. it was most likely a difference in weather.

[00Evan]

A) My TBs are not oversized

B) I dont even know how many cubic inches my engine is, nor do I care.

C) You're right, I did type a half ass reply because I have a lot better things to do than post to someone as ignorant as you. Even if i typed a 5 page paper, with every formula, every calculation, and every reason behind the mod you would still be an ignorant fuck and say that I am wrong. Don't believe me? Look at the math problem I gave you, your dumbass got it wrong and still wont admit it even though I showed you exactly how to get the answer acording to mathematical laws.

C) My Tbs are still freakin tiny.. And I dont know if i believe that 2 1.5" TBs flow better than a 3", id have to research it a bit more

D) I am building my car to race, not just in the 1/4 mile but on roadcorses too, since I enjoy both. The Stillen Intake wasnt cheap, neither was the HKS exhaust, GroundControl (made by eibach) coilovers, or the Axxis brake pads. I've spent around $1600 on just mods for my car so far. I am not a "ricer" who buys cheap knock off stuff hoping to go fast. I research what works the best on my car and I buy it.

-00Evan

[Adam Culpepper]

"My TBs are not oversized"

yes they are, thats why they have a throttle stop.

"I dont even know how many cubic inches my engine is, nor do I care."

you dont care because you dont know anything about IC engines.

"You're right, I did type a half ass reply because I have a lot better things to do than post to someone as ignorant as you. Even if i typed a 5 page paper, with every formula, every calculation, and every reason behind the mod you would still be an ignorant fuck and say that I am wrong. Don't believe me? Look at the math problem I gave you, your dumbass got it wrong and still wont admit it even though I showed you exactly how to get the answer acording to mathematical laws."

hey Number Gnome, the little math problem you came up with was entirely irrelevant. you never have, and never will, prove me wrong on anything. if you pull math problems out of a book that im not familiar with, then yes, you might stump me. however, in the real world, where we all have to live, you cant tell your ass from your elbow. want an example?

"I dont know if i believe that 2 1.5" TBs flow better than a 3", id have to research it a bit more"

that was a good example, methinks.

dont bother to research it. ive proven you wrong EVERY time youve opened your mouth. here is your chance. dont dwell on your little math problem. just be a man. bet me.

if im right, maybe youll dedicate a thread to an apology, eh?

"My Tbs are still freakin tiny"

your engine is tiny.

"I am building my car to race, not just in the 1/4 mile but on roadcorses too, since I enjoy both."

that must explain why your combination is a giant clusterfuck.

"I've spent around $1600 on just mods for my car so far."

and thats all youve got to show for it?

"I research what works the best on my car and I buy it."

bullshit.

stick to math problems, midget.

[00Evan]

I cant wait till I get enough money to finish my car so I can shut your stupid fucking ass up...

Whats it gonna feel like to get beat by an import in the 1/4, er scratch that you inbreds down there dont race that far, 1/8th mile?

-00Evan

[3Cars]

what is the best time your car has run so far?

[00Evan]

the car I am building has yet to be run..

-00Evan

[02GTMaMa]

Originally posted by 00Evan
Whats it gonna feel like to get beat by an import in the 1/4, er scratch that you inbreds down there dont race that far, 1/8th mile?

-00Evan
lol...closest 1/4 mile strip from my house is at least 1-1/2 hours away.
I love it. smack talkin' with a car that has no timeslips yet. :D :D :D Sweet! :drunk:

[3Cars]

Originally posted by 00Evan
the car I am building has yet to be run..

-00Evan are you building the 85?

[UrMyI3itch]

Originally posted by 00Evan
A) My TBs are not oversized

B) I dont even know how many cubic inches my engine is, nor do I care.

C) You're right, I did type a half ass reply because I have a lot better things to do than post to someone as ignorant as you. Even if i typed a 5 page paper, with every formula, every calculation, and every reason behind the mod you would still be an ignorant fuck and say that I am wrong. Don't believe me? Look at the math problem I gave you, your dumbass got it wrong and still wont admit it even though I showed you exactly how to get the answer acording to mathematical laws.

C) My Tbs are still freakin tiny.. And I dont know if i believe that 2 1.5" TBs flow better than a 3", id have to research it a bit more

D) I am building my car to race, not just in the 1/4 mile but on roadcorses too, since I enjoy both. The Stillen Intake wasnt cheap, neither was the HKS exhaust, GroundControl (made by eibach) coilovers, or the Axxis brake pads. I've spent around $1600 on just mods for my car so far. I am not a "ricer" who buys cheap knock off stuff hoping to go fast. I research what works the best on my car and I buy it.

-00Evan

A) Adam is right, if your throttle bodies were not over sized, the throttle plate would open all the way.
1)Your engine works on science physics as with every other internal combustion engine on earth. The throttle plates maxxed out position (if not all the way open on your car, its for a reason) is the point where the manufacturer determined exactly how much air will be let into the engine for maximum power output while still consuming very little fuel. The throttle plate does not determine how much air is going in, but actually how much air is NOT going in. the company knows exactly what posistion the plate needs to be at for maximum power output for your engine for the best economic perspective.
2) Import car companies try to make the most power while trying to use as little fuel as possible. To make up for this, they put longer strokes, and less air. Because with less air, you need less fuel.

B) Your engine is 183.09 cu. in. Anyone who is studying in the automotive field should know how to find this out... and no... i didnt get this off of the internet... i used a Math equation

C) Its amazing you claim you are studying in the automotive field, yet you contradicted yourself by saying it was a Half ass statement. You also contradicted yourself when saying that you didnt know what the Cubic Inch Displacement of your engine is. Whats even worse, is that your mathimatical formula's are not gonna prove shit to us. Esspecially because you are comparing your seniority to adam when you drive a street economy car, and he drives an NHRA sanction bracket car.

D) Acutally, you were right to begin with. your two 1.5" TB's flow more air due to the fact the intake manifold on a 300ZX is split, which means you have 1 throttle body supplying air to 3 combustion chambers, vs 1 throttle body twice the size conducting air to 6 combustion chambers. This is why the throttle plates do not open completely on your car. With your two throttle bodies, at full throttle, and wide open throttle plates, may be too much airflow for the engine. With one throttle body on that motor, you have to worry about air distribution. If you had one Throttle body, it would most likely open all the way.

And on a final note, Fuel = Power, not Air, you do need an oxidizer for the fuel to burn hotter, but when you put too much air in and not enough fuel, it deplentishes the fuel, therefore causes it NOT to burn very effectively.

[mustang23LX]

Originally posted by 00Evan
Whats it gonna feel like to get beat by an import in the 1/4, er scratch that you inbreds down there dont race that far
i'm from the south and i do race the 1/4 - primarily all i race. let me know if you're down this way when you're done with the project. i'd be more than happy to take a shot at ya with my little turbo street car. it does only have 1 throttle body but it's still pretty quick.
:burnout:

[Adam Culpepper]

and thats a stock bottom end application too, if i remember.

of course, Number Gnome quickly changed the subject, so as to avoid having his nose rubbed in the stink of his own stupidity, but....... well..........

you know me. i wont let it die. i know youre a dumbass. ill tell the world. oh yeah.

and Midget -- lest i forget -- mark my words.

never, in your entire life, will you have a car thats faster than mine, or an engine that makes more power.

im Adam Culpepper.

[mustang23LX]

Originally posted by Adam Culpepper
and thats a stock bottom end application too, if i remember.
you are correct - 110,000 miles worth of stock bottom end.

my one throttle body has an ID of only 2.559" so not too much to worry about but i'll do my best even though these domestics are usually overgeared since we only run 1/8th so you might run me down coming through the 1/4. just let me know when though.

[3Cars]

Evan, are you building the `85 300zx you have to race?

[2nuggetCs]

And on a final note, Fuel = Power, not Air, you do need an oxidizer for the fuel to burn hotter, but when you put too much air in and not enough fuel, it deplentishes the fuel, therefore causes it NOT to burn very effectively.

ahh but leaner is meaner is it not....

of course anything overboard is gonna fry the shit out of your engine...lol...i had that happen once. The rochester just wasnt enough:D

[3Cars]

Originally posted by 2nuggetCs
ahh but leaner is meaner is it not....

of course anything overboard is gonna fry the shit out of your engine...lol...i had that happen once. The rochester just wasnt enough:D :confused: huh???

[RacingJason]

Originally posted by 00Evan
Don't believe me? Look at the math problem I gave you, your dumbass got it wrong and still wont admit it even though I showed you exactly how to get the answer acording to mathematical laws.

I have to admit it...Evan has guts. Anyone that struts around beating their chest about a differential equation when they were busted in a REALLY simple math problem has either brass balls or no brains. (Nova was actually closer to the answer!!! :rofl: )
PS: There are 2 “C’s” in according.


Originally posted by 00Evan
And I dont know if i believe that 2 1.5" TBs flow better than a 3", id have to research it a bit more


:rofl: If any of your professors saw this they would make you clean out your desk and take your Power Rangers lunchbox to the nearest exit.

[KARAUDIO]

Hey Evan I got your back on this one I've done this mod on my 1990 300zx to, It made a HUGE difference all around you can ask anyone who has ever driven my car and they would agree.

Adam

[00Evan]

Thanks bro and welcome to the forums.

So you've got a Z also?

-00Evan

[Adam Culpepper]

yeah, the free mods always make the "big" difference.

har har haaaaaarrrrrr.

[3Cars]

yeah, nissan just let all that extra power go to waste.....:rolleyes:

[3Cars]

evan, what size are stock 300zx throttle bodies? (in mm`s)

[3Cars]

and for the third time, are you building the 85 300 as your fast car??? really, its not a trick question....

[00Evan]

Originally posted by 3Cars
and for the third time, are you building the 85 300 as your fast car??? really, its not a trick question....

You'll find out with everyone else next spring

-00Evan

[3Cars]

it dosent really matter to me, but if its the 85, i have a friend with some N/A aftermarket and modified stock parts you might be interested in...

[3Cars]

now, how about those throttle bodies...

[00Evan]

Originally posted by 3Cars
it dosent really matter to me, but if its the 85, i have a friend with some N/A aftermarket and modified stock parts you might be interested in...

A built Z31 NA engine is too slow for what I am going for, thanks for the offer though.

What parts does he have? I am just curious, perhaps for a daily driver? :D

-00Evan

[3Cars]

new, still in the box long tube headers, pair of re-woked heads, ported, w/ polished chambers. thats about it he has an 86 N/A car he might sell.

[00Evan]

prices?

-00Evan

[RacingJason]

Originally posted by Adam Culpepper
yeah, the free mods always make the "big" difference.

har har haaaaaarrrrrr.

If my wife gives me two T68 turbos for Christmas is it still a free mod? :D