Stock Suspension Racers

[Beetle]

I have been asked by a local Georgia track owner to compile a contact list of stock suspension racers for some future SS races. He is trying to put together a big money ss race in the next couple months,as well a monthly race,but he wants/needs some feedback on rules/purses/entry fees/ etc./etc./ My opinion is that they need a couple different heads up classes,in addition to some index classes. Maybe a "true" SS class and a "outlaw" SS class or maybe a small block nos class, or a radial class. You can post it here or feel free to p/m me your contact info if you don't want to put it on this thread and I'll pass it along. Thanks Mike

[DURAMAX]

Where is this so called track located? What is your definition of a "true" SS class? "outlaw" SS class, definition here too...

[Bill Wolf]

Originally Posted by DURAMAX

Where is this so called track located? What is your definition of a "true" SS class? "outlaw" SS class, definition here too...

X2! I've debated this SS thing here before so what is an "outlaw" SS? Is it a location thing? or is it an aftermarket component thing that all item's bolt to the stock location? and please don't come back and say that a mini tub/coil over shock combo makes it outlaw or i'll put my fist through this friggin'n screen. lol...

[CPC]

And just what track would this be?

[331coupered]

outlaw-mini tubs and rear coilovers, true-no mini tubs or rear coilovers thats my take on the two

[a408swinger]

Originally Posted by 331coupered

outlaw-mini tubs and rear coilovers, true-no mini tubs or rear coilovers thats my take on the two

That would be my take as well.

[DURAMAX]

well a mini tub and coil-over car is not a "true stock suspension" car now is it?

[streetsweeper94]

Originally Posted by DURAMAX

well a mini tub and coil-over car is not a "true stock suspension" car now is it?

Actually it all depends on who you are talking too. IMO, all mini tub and coil overs do is help a "stock suspension" car lower/move the instant center. On that note it is "still" a stock suspension because all of the stock control arm points still remain in the orig. location.

It really depends on what the track considers "outlaw" or "true" SS? If the rules stay "open" you will get more support for your race.

This will be a never ending discussion............

[DURAMAX]

I dont know of any car that came stock with coil-over shocks on the rear or mini-tubed for that matter.

I agree on the never ending discussion about what is and what isn't.

[slowstang106]

Originally Posted by Beetle

I have been asked by a local Georgia track owner to compile a contact list of stock suspension racers for some future SS races. He is trying to put together a big money ss race in the next couple months,as well a monthly race,but he wants/needs some feedback on rules/purses/entry fees/ etc./etc./ My opinion is that they need a couple different heads up classes,in addition to some index classes. Maybe a "true" SS class and a "outlaw" SS class or maybe a small block nos class, or a radial class. You can post it here or feel free to p/m me your contact info if you don't want to put it on this thread and I'll pass it along. Thanks Mike

where is the track?

[nutzrback4sale]

Originally Posted by DURAMAX

well a mini tub and coil-over car is not a "true stock suspension" car now is it?

HOLY SH*T , you guys are going to make me come back from the dead. I stumbled across this thread, after talking to J-Mill and trying to find a couple of videos.

I have gone through this before as well but after being called out on it at a grudgefest and having no reasonable repsonse..... its hard to stand up for something with no back up.

To answer your question, no a mini-tub coil over car did not come from the factory like that..... A CAR WITH COIL OVERS IN THE FRONT OR A DIFFERENTLY MOUNTED REAR SWAYBAR/ARB DID NOT COME FROM THE FACTORY LIKE THAT EITHER.

This is a never ending subject, but to many peoples arguement, how is coil overs on the front ok but not in the rear. And if its because the front ones are still in complete stock location, then why is it ok for a "TSS" car to have a rear ARB mounted in a non-stock location.

Why doesnt a "TSS" car still have to retain the quad shocks?
Why can a Chevy 2 not be competitive because they cannot install a 28x10.5 tire with out a mini-tub?

I am all for a "TSS" style class but it has to be some logical rules.

I understand the fact of trying to keep a stock suspension class that "Killintime" or "David Wolfe" could not enter so it would be a more entry level class. But someone has to come up with some rules that make sense or the class will be continuously poked fun at and will not become a legit class IMO.

So, yes open stock suspension has gotten out of hand but come up with some realistic rules to seperate the cars going 4.60's and 5.30's.

Make it a smaller size tire or something of that nature that makes sense to keep the cars equal or slowed down, dont say you can run aluminum wheels on the front but not in the back because thats not stock suspension.

Just my realistic opinion

[punisher]

so where is this so called track?

oh by the way tell'em to hold a stick shift race that will actually happen not no maybe shit like twiggs.

x2 on 331 and swinger S/S outlaw mini tubs and coil-over. true S/S no tubs or coil-overs

[DURAMAX]

"x2 on 331 and swinger S/S outlaw mini tubs and coil-over. true S/S no tubs or coil-overs"

i am with you on this one too.

True stock suspension = no coil over on front or rear and no mini-tubs

[THE ANIMAL]

well here we go

true stock suspension=NO MINI TUBS,NO COIL OVERS(REAR COILOVERS WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A TIRE CLEARENCE ISSUE ANY WAYS IF IT IS TRULY IN STOCK LOCATION)FRONT COILOVERS ARE ACTUALLY A BOLT ON ITEM FOR MUSTANGS,ANTI ROLL BARS ARE ALLOWED MORE OF A SAFETY ISSUE THEN A TRACTION AIDE(CUTTING TIRES)WISHBONES ARE A CENTERING DEVICE-NOT A TRACTION AIDE,ALL REAR CONTROL ARMS MUST BE BOLTED IN STOCK LOCATION(FACTORY BOLT HOLES)

and gentlemen and ladies any of the said items can be made as a bolt on item

me personally dont care if the antirolls and wishbones are welded or bolted

and yes there is a major gain with mini tubs,coilovers and 12" wide wheels on 28x10.5's
few yrs back i had a car 3260lbs 28x10.5's 12"wheels leaf spring car with caltracs averaged 1.17 to 1.18 60's and was more stable on the other end compared to the 10" wheels

outlaw stock suspension=stock type suspension any aftermarket boltons minitubs allowed coilovers allowed 28x10.5's 29.5x10.5's w's 315 295 325 drag radials allowed pretty much wide open rom there depending on the track or assoc. or org.

[hooper]

Im with 331 and swinger on this also.

mike,looks like you opened a bag a Sh** with this thread

[331coupered]

Originally Posted by THE ANIMAL

well here we go

true stock suspension=NO MINI TUBS,NO COIL OVERS(REAR COILOVERS WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A TIRE CLEARENCE ISSUE ANY WAYS IF IT IS TRULY IN STOCK LOCATION)FRONT COILOVERS ARE ACTUALLY A BOLT ON ITEM FOR MUSTANGS,ANTI ROLL BARS ARE ALLOWED MORE OF A SAFETY ISSUE THEN A TRACTION AIDE(CUTTING TIRES)WISHBONES ARE A CENTERING DEVICE-NOT A TRACTION AIDE,ALL REAR CONTROL ARMS MUST BE BOLTED IN STOCK LOCATION(FACTORY BOLT HOLES)

and gentlemen and ladies any of the said items can be made as a bolt on item

me personally dont care if the antirolls and wishbones are welded or bolted

and yes there is a major gain with mini tubs,coilovers and 12" wide wheels on 28x10.5's
few yrs back i had a car 3260lbs 28x10.5's 12"wheels leaf spring car with caltracs averaged 1.17 to 1.18 60's and was more stable on the other end compared to the 10" wheels

outlaw stock suspension=stock type suspension any aftermarket boltons minitubs allowed coilovers allowed 28x10.5's 29.5x10.5's w's 315 295 325 drag radials allowed pretty much wide open rom there depending on the track or assoc. or org.

Agreed, I know alot of peoples arguement with this issue is the antiroll, they say thats not "true s/s." Well my take is that with out a anti roll bar most cars couldn't even make it down the track, you can make it down the track straight with out mini tubs or coilovers but most can't do it without a antiroll bar. Like you said its more of a safety device.

[THE ANIMAL]

dustin your bout half right with the use of the antiroll you can get it down the track with out it and run pretty fast but the setup in the car and knowing what it takes to do it is alooooooooooot of trial and error,allowing the use of antirolls makes it wayyyyyyyyy easier for everyone and alot safer

[331coupered]

Originally Posted by THE ANIMAL

dustin your bout half right with the use of the antiroll you can get it down the track with out it and run pretty fast but the setup in the car and knowing what it takes to do it is alooooooooooot of trial and error,allowing the use of antirolls makes it wayyyyyyyyy easier for everyone and alot safer

Oh I agree with you there, my car went 5.60's with out the antiroll hooked up, actually had better 60 without it hooked up. But some car without a antiroll and a good bit of power, it just makes it hard to go straight. Take my red mustang for instance without the antiroll as soon as you would leave it would make an immediate turn to the right.

[THE ANIMAL]

Originally Posted by nutzrback4sale

HOLY SH*T , you guys are going to make me come back from the dead. I stumbled across this thread, after talking to J-Mill and trying to find a couple of videos.

I have gone through this before as well but after being called out on it at a grudgefest and having no reasonable repsonse..... its hard to stand up for something with no back up.

To answer your question, no a mini-tub coil over car did not come from the factory like that..... A CAR WITH COIL OVERS IN THE FRONT OR A DIFFERENTLY MOUNTED REAR SWAYBAR/ARB DID NOT COME FROM THE FACTORY LIKE THAT EITHER.

This is a never ending subject, but to many peoples arguement, how is coil overs on the front ok but not in the rear. And if its because the front ones are still in complete stock location, then why is it ok for a "TSS" car to have a rear ARB mounted in a non-stock location.

Why doesnt a "TSS" car still have to retain the quad shocks?
Why can a Chevy 2 not be competitive because they cannot install a 28x10.5 tire with out a mini-tub?

I am all for a "TSS" style class but it has to be some logical rules.

I understand the fact of trying to keep a stock suspension class that "Killintime" or "David Wolfe" could not enter so it would be a more entry level class. But someone has to come up with some rules that make sense or the class will be continuously poked fun at and will not become a legit class IMO.

So, yes open stock suspension has gotten out of hand but come up with some realistic rules to seperate the cars going 4.60's and 5.30's.

Make it a smaller size tire or something of that nature that makes sense to keep the cars equal or slowed down, dont say you can run aluminum wheels on the front but not in the back because thats not stock suspension.

Just my realistic opinion

whats happenin there little buddy good to see u still watchin

we absolutely do need some form of rules for true stock suspension

now as for smaller tires and such hell 26x8.5" run in the 30's,26x10's in the 0's to teens just go through more tires


i will be completing a car in a few months that is true stock and it will display alot of the new concepts for true stock type cars strictly bolt on type but this car will not be able to wear a set of 28x10.5 only 28x9's or 275/60 drag radial and a 26x8.5

[THE ANIMAL]

Originally Posted by 331coupered

Oh I agree with you there, my car went 5.60's with out the antiroll hooked up, actually had better 60 without it hooked up. But some car without a antiroll and a good bit of power, it just makes it hard to go straight. Take my red mustang for instance without the antiroll as soon as you would leave it would make an immediate turn to the right.

oh i know thats what i ment about it being whole other setup

[nutzrback4sale]

Quick questions...
Since coil overs do not help or are not an advantage.... would it be ok for a car that was mini-tubbed to use 28x10.5 tires with a 10" wheel and come run in the class, since everything else is equal? How would the mini-tubs make the car faster? You might be able to lower the car just a LITTLE more but with the right backspacing wheel and setup you can get a non rear coil over mustang almost just as low. You cant say that lowering the car that last little bit is worth enough to make a car run in a different class. If that is true you will need to set a ride height for the class.

I still to this day have not had one logical answer to the question I was interrogated on at Grudgefest.

Animal, you know I am going to have to get you on this one but everything that you mentioned with “TSS” is contradicting. You first said that your old car was a lot better with the 12” wheels and a lot more stable down track. Well if this 12” wheel deal is true and a ARB is only for safety, shouldn’t the 12” wheels be allowed for safety as well so these cars wont loose control on the other end?

ARB’s are what they are and is considered a safety factor as are torque arms on f-body’s.

Like I stated, I am all for a class that separates the top dawgs of SS, such as KillinTime or David Wolfe, but to make it a logical or respectable class that the outsiders wont poke fun of, there needs to be rules that make the class separated. On top of that, the rules as they are now are slightly revolved around a Mustang. Some older cars cant run competitively if they that cant fit 28x10.5’s, so they shouldn’t have to run Outlaw Stock Suspension because they had to mini-tub to fit 28x10.5’s.

If the 12” wheels are the big deal, limit the rear wheel size. I mean, no one is limited how skinny you can run the front wheels because lighter up front helps with the 60’.



I don’t have the perfect solution for this. Maybe it needs to be a 275 radial on stock suspension to help slow the cars down. But if you are going to have a true stock suspension, you cant allow part of the suspension to be modified and state that the other parts must remain stock. There has to be some LOGICAL, NON-CONTRADICTING rules that separate the classes.

[nutzrback4sale]

Originally Posted by 331coupered

Oh I agree with you there, my car went 5.60's with out the antiroll hooked up, actually had better 60 without it hooked up. But some car without a antiroll and a good bit of power, it just makes it hard to go straight. Take my red mustang for instance without the antiroll as soon as you would leave it would make an immediate turn to the right.

We should have tooken my old car and made 2 out of one,
We might have ended up with one that went straight!

some left + some right = straight, maybe?

[331coupered]

I just think you should split the 2 classes up have a true s/s race and a outlaw s/s race.

[331coupered]

Originally Posted by nutzrback4sale

We should have tooken my old car and made 2 out of one,
We might have ended up with one that went straight!

some left + some right = straight, maybe?

LOL, hell yeah, sounds like it would have worked to me

[nutzrback4sale]

mic check 1-2, 1-2, can I get a reply?

[331coupered]

Originally Posted by nutzrback4sale

mic check 1-2, 1-2, can I get a reply?

I will agree with you if a mini tub coil over car shows up on the same size rim and tire, he really has no advantage. I will say this also that most guys with mini tubs and coilovers usually run bigger rims and tires, there for they have bigger engines and are making more HP, and that would be the advantage. Take for instance KT if he shows up on 28s with a 10' rim he is going to haul ass still because he makes enough power he doesn't have to leave hard and he can put it in on down track, yeah he won't run as fast as he usually does but give someone like him time to test on 10' rims and I think he could run in the 70's pretty easily.

[nutzrback4sale]

thats pretty much my point, if the purse pays good, those guys will get in the class to win because the only thing that separates the classes are pretty much wheel size. I would like to see it be a class that makes it competitive for someone that doesnt have the power that Killintime does.

P City put on s big stock suspension race and David Reese eased through the field. Then they made it "TSS", not allowing mini tubs or coil overs and the class and car count got worse.

See my point?

There needs to be a separation other than some 12" wheels.

[Beetle]

Ok guys this is good we need to get all these issues ironed out, and come up with a good fair set of rules.Right now I'm working with Larry Jr. at Lagrange/ troup county dragway for a special race he's putting together.However If I come up with a decent amount of cars and some rules everone can deal with I'm going to pimp this to every outlaw track owner within 3 hours of Atlanta.I know there is hundreds of true ss small block nos cars out there we just need to get them somewhere to run and be competitive.Most of the track owners will put up some cash if you can get enough cars to the track. MB

[DURAMAX]

Dont leave out the guys who have a big block sitting on true stock suspension, cant count those guys out either.

[crossbreed]

what about guys with stock k-members stock front suspension stock rear suspension,and is a real street car not a race car that is street legal?
we need a class we can have fun in. we run 28x10.5 too. at the track but drive it to work every day on hard tires. we don't run at the track on the hard tires because of safety.